----------------------------------- Two Clowns in a Closet - Episode 11 https://circusfreaks.org/podcast Recorded on 2022-12-12 ----------------------------------- *Door closes* Russ: Episode three of the second season. We have arrived. We are here and I am excited. How are you my friend? Liam: I am doing good. How are you? R: I'm- I'm, I'm good. L: You're excited R: I am excited. It's cold so I'm- I'm, I'm feeling the chill and you know we were talking earlier about how this season seems to be more of us going even further behind the scenes be more personal- L: Yeah, yeah, yeah. R: and I realized I walked in here without my performing hat L: Oh my god R: So I'm just- I'm a little naked. So this may get very real. I don't know what's gonna happen. L: All right R: I also was thinking about the fact that the third episode and by- of a season. L: *Affirmative Noise* R: By this point you either have it figured out or you change the format. We're not changing the format, so we're arguably actually doing the job L: Unless you only consider this the second episode, because it's only the second episode where we've had the cards. R: Oh my friend, I must tell you, it is so good to know that you will always find a way to keep us from feeling pressured. L: See? R: Thank you so much. I knew I could count on you. It's why I enjoy having you here with me when we do this. Plus I would have to do half the- well the other half the work and I don't want that. L: Yeah, you don't want to do the whole thing. I can promise you don't want to have to do the whole thing. R: No no no. No no no. I'm super grateful and we should take a moment to say hello to everyone L: Hello everybody! R: Because we're here, we're back, and we're ready with some cards. L: Yes R: To do this thing and as as you know that means we've gone up a flight of stairs onto a landing, we turned a corner, we waved at the hat rack as we walked by and went across a room and into a little room where I keep all my fancy pants, closed the door for another episode of L: "Two Clowns in a Closet" R: That's right, you got it so good L: Thank you R: So L: You did- you did a splendid job R: Oh thank you. I'm- I'm working on it, I'm working on it. I hope everybody's doin' well. I got some lovely messages from people saying they were excited- we're in the middle of doing a batch of recordings and a lot of editing and transcription and we got some really nice messages of people who are excited about this so right now it feels very very " We've gotta get it done. We've gotta get it done" but also people telling us that this thing helps them relax and to know that I'm very excited to help people fall asleep is okay L: *Laughs* R: That's- no that's L: No, it's really good. It's really nice to- to know that- that people care and that are looking forward to hearing from us. R: So, that is wonderful and I wanted to say "Thank you" again for that and- and "Hello" and we should get after your questions because we have questions stacked up waiting and- and more a comin' and hopefully you're sending us more as you're hearing this you're thinking "Oh of that thing that I didn't ask about" or "You forgot to say" or "I wonder about this". We could jump all that in there. L: Yes R: Yes, with that in mind L: *sings* I have a stack of questions R: Oh good because I thought I left the next to my hat L: Nope, I've got them R: Oh good L: I've got them this time. I've got them, I've also got my hat. It's not a performing hat though, it's just a warm one. R: It is a warm hat. It is- it is, and it's- it's lovely. L: Thank you R: and fuzzy L: yes R: good fuzzy hat will get you through a lot of trouble in this world. L: It will R: I had a friend who said to me once, he said "Never underestimate the power of a silly hat" L: I believe that R: It's a great L: They're powerful. R: It's a great bit of wisdom L: Yes it is R: and I agree and I'm very grateful I received it. In the meantime you had some questions. L: I do R: I was talking to them L: Well, they did and they told me and I wrote them down. R: Well is somebody going to tell me or am I gonna be left out of the loop the whole time? L: Sure, "What's it like inside of a clown car?" R: *laughs* We just sort dove in. "What's it like inside of a clown car" L: We dove in after- after how long of- R: It's- there's a tradition of banter. L: Yes R: There's a gentle soft entry. It's how we do things around here. L: Yes R: We- we like- we like what- what's called a soft open L: Yes R: Cold opens are the worst, nice soft open where before you know it, you're in the middle of a show. The question was "What is it like on the inside of a clown car?" Oddly enough I have no idea. L: You don't know? R: I've never been in a clown car. I know for a fact that they take a regular car, they rip the seats out and there's no trick to it. They just cram everybody in there. I have been in lots of gags that involved cramming people in a small spaces but I've never done the clown car. I have, however, been crammed into the back of a tiny toy train. L: Ooo. R: Which was interesting because it was a caboose on a train and the thing was going around the- the event site. And at the end of the day I'm- I'm walking around on stilts that day so I'm very tall and silly and somebody said "Get in the train!" L: Oh, so this is one of those- the little pull a long ones that R: Well somebody is driving it, yeah. It's a little toy train though L: Yeah R: It's a little toy train, someone said "Get in- get in the train" and I thought "I'm not sure I can" and before I know it people were helping they're- which is to say, they were pushing and shoving me into the train and I went around this event with my stilt legs hanging out the side of the caboose of a toy train dangling and kicking and thinking "This is a weird way to make a living" L: yes it is R: It was. So that's the closest I think I've been because I was crammed into a small space with my legs hanging outside while going around and everything was great and people were cheering and applauding and thinking it was hilarious and I took my hat off, which again if I had it here I'd be doing it now, I took my hat off and waved it out the window and people but I sadly, I did not- I did not succeed in getting in a clown car. I got on a clown train. I suppose ecologically it's- and for climate it's better. L: Yes, yes I believe it is. R: So I'm going to go with that. That's as close as I've got. How 'bout you? Have you? "What's it like to be on the inside of a clown car?" L: Well I've never done the clown car trick. With the- the- R: With the many people L: With the many, many clowns in a car. However, strictly speaking, I think it's inaccurate that you've never been in a clown car. R: What do you mean? L: Well, you see, at various points, this company has been larger and smaller and at one of the periods of time where it was a little bit larger, the roustabouts had a tendency to label the various cars that were being used to transport both performers and tools and props and all of things and we would tend to call them 'clown cars' because we knew everyone was a clown and- R: In the cars there were clowns, I assume. L: Yes R: This is all new to me, I'm listening with rapt attention. L: and beyond that, because you are boss clown and creative director, any car that you were in was 'clown car one' R: *laughs* you're serious? L: Oh yeah. R: How did I not know about this? L: Oh, no. Every car that you were in R: Oh, that's good L: was 'clown car one', so people would ask "Where's clown car one" or "Do we have an E.T.A. for clown car one?" R: You know what's really funny is I'm pretty sure I've heard someone say "Clown car one is moving" into a radio. L: Yeah R: I got pretty sure, now that you're mentioning this, I'm thinking I've heard that before. L: Oh a hundred percent. This was what we would do and so- and we would arbitrarily give other clown cars numbers sometimes but it never had to do with anything, it was just- R: but the only one the mattered was L: yours was 'clown car one' R: 'cause when I got on site they could solve tech problems because I was- I could call a directorial shot. L: Yep R: Got it. Got it. That's L: Yup R: How do I not know about this until now? I mean, like I said, I have vague memories of people saying things like that, but not really thinking about it. L: Because it was the stuff that wasn't important. That's the stuff that we to care of. R: Unfortunately, the problem is what I'm- I'm, I'm literally sitting here on record admitting to not knowing what the heck is going on in my own company L: Well, I mean that's the stuff that- That's the stuff that you didn't need to know. Because other people were taking care of things. It was how other people took care of things. R: You're trying to tell me I've got people for clown cars? L: Yes R: Give me the cards. You're not allowed to answer any- ask anymore. I'm from take 'em away from you. *laughing* I'm going to take- That's- you know, that's probably the best, most succinct, bizarre answer I've ever heard. L: *laughs* R: Okay card number two L: Okay R: Glasses L: What've we got? R: I'm vampin' a little because I forgot to put my glasses on. I remembered those. Well that's an interesting question. "Have you had any memorable instances where you interact with someone in character and then later out of character or vice versa?" L: That's a very good question. I can't say I've had a lot of very memorable ones. I do know that when I first started performing I had a fair number of family members and friends who wanted to come and see me and when we were- so, we were taking, like, my clown out to events where my clown was roaming around the event and interacting with people and so I would tell my friends and family if it was an open event that they could come if they wanted to do but I had to preface it and make sure that they knew that the being who would be there with a face similar to mine would not know who they are and they would be having an interaction with somebody who was a complete stranger and that they needed to be prepared for that because Jane was not gonna know who they were. R: That's funny L: I think there's a certain level where you- you have to get used to- your- your clown has to get used to understanding that when your name is spoken, they're being called. So that they can navigate through that because there are sometimes where it's just gonna escalate to be problematic if they don't navigate it quietly but yeah, I- I- I, I gave people a heads up in advance so that it wouldn't be too weird. R: Did it happen? L: I think it happened at least once. R: Was it weird? L: It was weird R: okay L: but it was not- but it was not, like, them trying to force the reality of them knowing me onto my clown, which was very nice. R: What I think is interesting about that is also you've- you've worked alongside a lot of performers and like the backstage side, people have mistaken you for other people haven't they? L: Oh yeah, no. That has definitely happened. So, for a while there, on multiple occasions Marie will be out doing one of her stilt characters R: Very heavily made up L: So whether that's- whether that's Tree, or that's just a tall clown, that's a lot of make up because it is further away so that people can see, 'cause she's on three foot stilts and- and for some reason, presumably because when my hair was longer and I was presenting female we were both blonde feminine people? R: I always assumed it was because you were the shortest one in the company and L: That might be it, I don't know. R: So the logic goes "Oh stilts, must be the shortest" L: Must be the short one. That's possible to. I don't know but people thought I was the stilt walker, so many times. I've had so many people, when we're trying to just get our stuff out and they happened to catch us, because it does happen, think I was the tall one, whatever tall one had been there that day. And I mean, admittedly, sometimes I was the tall one. I don't think any time that I was actually on stilts I had somebody afterwards go "You're the person on stilts right?" I don't think I've ever had one of those interactions. I've only had it when Marie was on stilts. R: That's really funny. You- I have- I have the problem of course that I look like me no matter what I do. So I think about you getting mistaken for other people and I was thinking, you know, Robert of the crazy colored hair can put a hat on and he just disappears into a crowd L: yeah R: but I- I have to hide behind boxes or wear hoodies and sneak- and I still get spotted. I get spotted any time I'm on an event site. So it's it's a thing I think about. L: Well, so, in- in that case, "Have you had any memorable instances where you interact with someone in character and then later out of character or vice versa?" R: A bunch of times and it's super weird L: *laughs* R: The- the thing is, you- you get to a point where you learn there are two facts in play and one is your clown has had adventures that you were- you were there for, but you're so focused on the moment you don't really remember them in the same way. It's sort of like getting up and doing improv. When it's over you don't really have a sen- you were like in a trance, you don't really know, you have to kind of piece back together what happened and a lot of times you've had a minor something funny happened and someone else had a significant positive experience and so someone will find you later and walk up to you out of- out of drag and- and out of costume and say "You're amazing, you're wonderful, I'm so glad we had that moment together" and you have to sort of go "Oh yeah, you you met the clown" and- and that has to be okay. I have one very distinct memory- performing for kids, who always wanna look and- they want to break your reality because they- they are so smart that they wanna know you're- you're on stilts, you're- you're an illusion, they want to know, you're wearing a costume. They wanna know what's going on behind L: *Affirmative Noise* R: So it's stuck in my mind because it was kind of the opposite scenario. So I- I don't like to do multiple events in a day and there are many performers- I'll do multiple shows of the same show in a day, but I need to settle into an environment and get my bearings and I'm- I, I sort of decided at one point that I do my- having done it both ways I really do my best work when I'm- I'm doing one event, but this was during a time before I figured that out. L: Okay R: and I would go from event, to event, to event, to event, to event and I figured out, like one thing that was good because I was very sweaty performing, different costumes, different characters, change it up so you don't get burnt out and so early in the day we had some kids event I don't remember what it was but I went as Rhino and had the rhino horn and the whole Rhino thing and I did Rhino. L: "Hey Rhino!" R: "Hey Rhino!" and I- so, I was playing this rhinoceros, a silly, very silly idiot, and later in the evening I had a juggling event and the juggling event was in- it was a shopping mall that had gone to this weird revitalization thing where was on the way out but hadn't gone yet, they put art galleries in and they do a gallery night which was this fantastic event. You have like fifty galleries that opened up, the all threw big parties and they had live entertainment that was us and so I was there that night juggling with my juggling partner and it was- L: fancy-pants juggler R: fancy pants juggler, kind of clownish but just plain clothes, you know, no- no- no costume, no nose, no care- just me and I noticed as I was running around that I had picked up a little- little minion following of small children and I smile and keep doing what I was doing, and I was coming out of one of the galleries L: *Affirming Noise* R: I'm stepping out of one of the galleries and I was back in sort of the big public mezzanine area and all these kids decided to mob me, and they come running up and I'm like "yeah" with, like, juggling clubs over one shoulder like- like a sports figure only in the worst possible way L: *laughs* R: and they said "Aren't you the Rhino?" and I panicked because one of the things we figured out early on about our company was that we tried really hard to never break the magic. We never let our still walkers be seen getting into costumes. We never let- we never let anyone see our characters taking off masks or noses, that was all backstage stuff because the illusion so much better if you really buy in, and I thought "oh no, I'm about to wreck it" and I- I panicked and I went for it and I went (in Rhino's voice) "Shhhh! I'm in disguise" (returns to normal voice) pulling the voice as best as I could (in Rhino's voice) "I'm in- I'm in disguise" (returns to normal voice) and they went, and they all looked at each other and went "oh, oh" then they said "Why?" L: *laughs* R: and I said (in Rhino's voice) "They don't let rhinos in a shopping mall" L: *laughs* R: (returns to normal voice) And they L: Did they buy that? R: They all were like "Oh yeah, oh, that makes- that makes perfect sense" and I think the truth is we all- we all know- the kids knew the jig was up, I knew the jig was up but this was more fun than the truth L: Hmmnnnn R: and I think that why it stuck with me is this was so much more fun, this idea that maybe- maybe, maybe there was a way this could still be true L: *Affirmative Noise* R: this little bubble and so it was "okay, you know, nudge nudge, wink wink. Nobody knows I'm actually a rhino disguised as a person walking around a shopping mall" and I- and I waved goodbye and they say "Goodbye not Rhino!" and they put their hands over their mouths. L: *laughs* R: better comedians than I am L: *laughs* R: I mean, that's children for you. So, I always- always remember that when I think of stuff like this. I've had many things where people have caught me back stage or afterwards and it's- it's nice but that's- that's the kind of stuff that- that sticks with me because they were in the game with me. L: Yeah, that's wonderful R: yeah L: kids are great when they're great R: So I think, yeah, I think that's my answer. That'll be my answer. L: All right, very nice, and I think we have another card R: Another card? Oh for me. L: yes, 'cause it's my turn to read R: it's your read. You're reading. L: It's my read. My read. R: I was on the- How is it such a simple thing and I've yet to have gotten it right once? L: Because it's a little confusing, because we each read two questions in a row R: Don't change the format. Don't- don't dissect the format. L: Ok R: It's working- it's worked for an entire season, we've enjoyed it, people have enjoyed it. Don't wreck it but yeah I think if I think about it at all I get it wrong. L: Okay, well then we'll just keep going. R: All right, question. L: The question is- oh I'm surprised someone knows about this, that's awesome. R: *intrigued noise* L: "Do you know anyone in the clown egg museum and do you have hopes of getting in yourself? R: Clown egg museum, is that the thing with the make up on the eggs? L: Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. R: Oh, okay so here's the thing, I don't perform wearing makeup and I remember hearing about this and going "Oh, it's a make up thing" and I never looked at it again. I actually know next to nothing about it other than the fact that it exists. So my answer is, and I have friends that are clowns in the UK, so I guess the answer is maybe but I have no idea. L: Okay R: I have no idea and- and because I don't perform in make up I- I don't know if I would want that because that would just be my actual face painted on an egg L: and your sideburns R: and my- yeah they would- they would just have to do that. Ah, well I feel like I've- I've, I think it finally happened, I think I- I have trenched an answer because L: 'Cause you don't know. R: That's- I've got nothing. L: You know what? R: and I'm so sorry. L: I think- I think it's okay R: can you- can you dig us out? L: for you not to know anything, and yes I can actually, R: Can you dig us out? And you know, one of my favorite quotes of all time, L: *Affirmative Noise* R: before I pass this off to you, one of my favorite quotes was from one of my teachers and he said- he said, "You know, it's important not to know too much" and this is one of those times where I certainly have lived up to that expectation. L: *laughs* R: I've nailed it, I've nailed it. So because I- hopefully this is not going to just be a terrible answer, "Do you know anyone in the clown egg museum and do you have hopes of getting in yourself?" L: So, I also do not know whether I know anyone in the clown egg museum but I will do a little bit of explanation of what the clown egg museum is, because I assume that not everybody knows. R: Well, I know the bare minimum, and I'm a clown so. L: So- so the clown egg museum, I don't have like a full history in front of me but the clown egg museum was started when a- a fair number of UK clowns wanted to create a registry of make up. Of- of the faces of the clowns who were performing. I believe this was primarily, like, birthday clowns? But I'm not certain about that. R: This is all your rope, you get to- you get to hang yourself however you want. L: Yeah, I don't- I don't know all the details but I have looked into it a little bit, and so essentially somebody got the idea of if you take a fake egg. R: Wait, it's not even a real egg? L: They're not real eggs. They're- they're- R: I am- I'm, I'm watching my skepticism slowly L: So you take a fake egg R: trundle along L: because they'll last longer and you- and because, you know, they're vaguely head shaped you can paint R: maybe your head shape L: You can paint on the- the make-up pattern of any given clown and so somebody decided to do this and essentially create a physical registry of clown makeups, however, as it is a physical registry of clown makeups, they're- they have a website but there's no digital registry, like you can't, R: you can't L: see them, R: You can't look them up. L: You can't go look them up. So like, I can't go R: remember that scepticism thing? L: I can't go "Okay I have this friend who's a clown by this name and this is, like, this is their performing- performing name, this is their given name, Are they there?" You can't find that out. R: Wait L: You can physically go to the museum. R: Okay, L: because there is a museum, R: where they're all on display L: where they are all on display R: You could look through it yourself L: and you can look through it yourself by there is no way to, like, go look somebody up in the clown egg museum. R: This is questionable, and I have questions L: And on the point of do I have any aspirations of getting in myself. Absolutely not, and I will tell you why, it is because this is not something that someone volunteers you for, this is not something where once you've hit a certain amount of renown, or "real-ness" as a clown R: Oh, this isn't a recognition? L: that you achieve R: This isn't a recognition? L: This is not a recognition. R: well how do you get in? L: You pay for it. You send in your- you send in photographs of your clown, you send in- you have to- you fill out a form and you pay for the artist's time and for R: Okay, I'm ok with that part. L: and for two eggs to be painted. R: What happens to the other egg? L: One of those eggs is sent to you, so you have a copy of your own clown egg, and the other one is put on display in the clown egg museum. R: You know what I just figured out? If clowns were ever gonna do something akin to a crypto currency, this is how badly we we do it. L: *laughs* R: It would involve rubber eggs and our own heads and it would only cost us, and we'd end up paying an artist. I think you've- I think you've- you've used explained us well. L: So, I would not say that it is a- I would not say that it's a scam. I could see people calling it a scam. I don't think it is, because I think that they have actually made an interesting museum, it is a registry, but it's an isolated little registry, and that is all that it is. R: I feel like we're gonna get, if- if there's ever been like a "Well, actually" moment from of your clowns L: That we're gonna suddenly get? R: This is when we get those letters. L: There is there is nothing wrong with putting your face on on an egg in the clown egg museum. I think it's awesome and I will say to the artists involved's credit, because they're have been multiple artists at this point, it's been handed off, at least once, I think of couple of times, they do a lot of work to make it so that these are very realistic. Like these are very, very good representations. While you can just send it in, they often will send requests for, now this is just gonna make it sound weird, samples of hair. R: So now you're telling me they're little poppets with actual human, or clown hair. L: Sometimes R: I'm- I'm L: Sometimes they're done R: Why is this so uncomfortable to me? I don't- I don't know why but it is L: Sometimes they're done, you know with just- just fake hair, they come up with their own stuff, if- if hair's even relevant, because it- it basically comes down to, like, for you, your sideburns are such a part of your look. R: Step back, step back with those sharp fingers L: I'm not going to take your hair. R: You don't have any scissors over there? L: I don't have any scissors, I'm not going to take your hair. R: Now I'm wary L: but they would need to put something on the egg as a symbol of those because otherwise it wouldn't be you. R: Again I'm- I'm not egg shaped. L: but also, if you're actually- if you're local, if you can go in and I'm sure they're not doing it- well, I don't know how they've handled safety in the past few years, but prior to that I do know that they would have you go in and actually, like, do a little interview and one on one and model for the egg painting. So, like, that is one of the ways that it gets done. R: that part sounds great. L: Which I think is awesome. R: I think- I think that part sounds great. I believe this is yet another example of the weird questionable need for legitimacy that everybody in this world has. L: Oh totally. R: I mean, I've received certificates that I had to color in myself, for workshops I've taken. L: That makes sense R: Yeah, see, that's where I expect this sort of silliness to be because we're playing with it. L: *Affirmative Noise* R: This sounds like it takes itself serious- this isn't a joke. They take themsel- L: No, they take themselves very seriously, R: I don't know L: it's not a joke but it also is it's- it's limited to what it is. So it's not- it is not actually legitimacy in any way, what it is, is a way to say "no, if there's a clown wearing a particular make up design, it's probably me. It needs to be me." it's a arguably- R: I can see the want for that, because if you, you know, if you- if you go "I want that one" and you- you got somebody else that would be terrible. L: Yeah, that would- that- and that could be really bad, because I mean, if somebody goes out there and is just awful and is wearing your costume and your makeup? R: Oh that's evil. That's especially- because here's the thing, all of- the way I approach the work, and again heavy- heavy with my opinion, the way I approach what I do, and- and I'm literally looking at the clothes I wear when I do it, these are heightened extensions of versions of things I think about myself, and makeup is designed to heighten what's actually there. You don't draw something on that isn't on your face. If you have a weird line on your face? That's the- L: You highlight that yeah. R: you make it bigger, because that's how we see you from a distance and bigger. The level of creepy doppelganger the idea of somebody trying to copy that? That makes me uncomfortable, so a registry may be good but I- I don't know that it's- L: but you can't really check it so, R: So it's not really a registry, L: *laughs* R: It's just- it's just somebody got a bunch of eggs L: that look like all the clowns in the UK. R: This is like saying "For a nominal fee, I will make- I will draw a picture of you and not show it to anybody else unless they come to my house, and you'll pay me money for that" L: but you also get an egg, you get a copy. R: Well yeah, I'll give you- L: "I'll give you a copy" R: You know, we could start our own registry L: We could. I don't want to do all of that R: I don't wanna do that kind of- that's paperwork and- and- and being in charge of things, L: So that's the story of the- the clown egg museum. It is a very cool thing that exists, but no I- I- I don't intend to be a part of it. R: You don't intend to be a part of it. You know I think it's one of- it boils down to if I was standing there and somebody said "Hey, wanna be in the egg museum?" I'd be like "Sure, why not?" L: Yeah, R: Assuming L: yeah, yeah, yeah R: Assuming it could L: I mean maybe if I could actually be there physically and do the- do it as a portrait? That might be really cool. R: I'm- L: But for me being in- being in the U.S.? R: It doesn't matter L: and it's just sending in a form? That doesn't seem like fun to me. R: What's funny about this, and I- and I am, I- I'm, I'm jabbin' at it because it's- it's, it's a bit ridiculous. I love it when- when we inspire someone enough to make creative works L: *Affirmative Noise* R: When like, somebody comes up to me and says "I did a doodle of you on this cocktail napkin" I love that. That is my fa- I have framed on my wall on the other side of this door L: Multiple examples of that, yeah. R: examples of that that I've collected and it's- it's something meaningful to me. I think that's awesome when we inspire people, but as a service? Er, that doesn't- no. L: Yeah, I mean, I think it's one thing to get- get artwork done for- for- to display of "this is my clown" and another thing completely to R: Well and- and I think in that case it's also it's a gift, as sometimes I've been- I've been sent things. L: Oh yeah, I'm just saying, like, I'm not opposed to- to- to getting- commissioning artwork, like I'm not opposed to doing that. R: Absolutely not. Abs- I think that's a wonderful idea, and in fact that something that I think about, you know, doing every now and then when- whenever we do, you know, L: A project that's gonna need it, yeah. R: A project, a new show, if we have- if we have a poster that's not going to be a photograph I go- I go looking for an artist to get involved in a project and we pay them, yeah absolutely. L: But, for me, the- the- the having- having my clown's face on an egg doesn't appeal. R: Despite the shape of your head being so egg like. L: Blehh R: Okay, I'm going to L: You missed it, I stuck out my tongue. That's why I made the 'bleh' sound. R: You just tried it now with your tongue in your mouth and it sounded really bad. Wait, wait, do- do the one with your tongue in your mouth L: bleh R: Do they one with your tongue out L: Blehh R: Can you hear that? The difference is so clear. L: I'm glad that it's audible. R: We made time to educate people in the proper way to L: Blehh R: That. I'm going to read- you did so great I'm gonna read you a question. L: All right, sounds good. R: As if it were the format of the show L: or something. R: Oh, are you ready? L: Yes. R: "Have you ever done a show where the clowns build the set in front of the audience and dismantling it at the end of the performance?" L: Yes. Yes I have R: that, we- we got- we got a lot to say L: We are- yeah, we've done- we've done that a few times. Or- ver- varying levels, that- there's one that's popping to mind immediately. R: Where we did, built- it says built L: Where we, one hundred percent, showed up, built the set, did the show, tore it down, and left and went home, as clowns the entire time. R: I just made the "I know what you are about to talk about" face. L: So we- we were brought in by a library and the library was in a shopping mall. This has been a day for shopping mall stories. R: What is- yeah, I was going to say, we seem to have these themes. L: So- so this library was in a shopping mall, and they- I guess got permission from the mall to use one of those open- the mezzanine type spaces. R: Yeah big- big just big L: One of the big spaces in the middle of the mall and if I remember correctly this is something that they do on a fairly regular basis, of- they have like a set up where they have those little puzzle mats out for kids to sit in, to sit on, and then a stage space. 'cause I think they do like storytelling and they do different shows that they bring in and they took care of setting that up but one of the things about it being in a mall was they didn't have a back room for us to come in and use as our dressing room R: and I'd like to point out the changing into your clown costume in a public restroom is one of the least fun parts of the job. So you try to avoid it. L: So you try to avoid it. So what we did instead, was we brought- we loaded up all the gear onto the carts, we went at and at home before we headed out we all got into costume and make up and we came out to the mall we loaded all of the gear onto carts and then we actually- we actually used something that we had just learned and just trained- R: Oh, the- the hospital clowning thing L: Yeah, would you like to explain? 'cause you taught it. R: Sure, sure, sure. So in- in our clown residency teaching program we often bring in anybody's ideas and sometimes we bring in guest teachers, and one of the things that I had picked up somewhere and brought to the lab because I said "Oh this is so cool, let's try it" is something I learned from someone who does a lot of hospital clown, where they go when they visit the kids, but sometimes they have to disappear. L: *Affirmative Noise* R: and I don't mean turn invisible, I mean not be the most interesting thing in the room for something much more dramatic is happening. So, they get very good, or they have to get somewhere L: through hospital hallways R: and they can't be stopped every two seconds, so they came up with this thing where they're very good and I don't specifically want to give it all away, but you you use what is important to each of the people what they call fixed point in- in the theater terms, of what everybody's paying attention to and by manipulating that, you make only one thing everyone's looking at and it's the- it's the thing you're doing and then you have a leader and if the leader stops then everybody can look around and wave to people but if the leader starts going again then they all fall back into line and it's very or- I'm describing in a really sort of stumbling way but when a group does it together and they get a little practiced with it they can literally be a very precision movement and then stop and fan out like birds looking around and then fly off again and it's really great for getting through crowds L: *Affirmative Noise* R: and crowded areas. And I said we- we played with it and what were we- we realized 'cause remember, we had this problem, "What if- what we did was we had all of the clowns except for one focused on keeping the gear that is in bags and looking really packed up on the cart because it was- everybody put your hands on the cart and look at the cart and the one person the front looking off in the distance where we were heading" and so when you look at the scene you go "Oh, there's a cart and it's going over there" and you stop and you take all that in and by that point we've moved on, L: yes. R: because if we were up and looking and waving at people, next thing you know everybody's asking for selfies. L: And we knew we had to get to the spot R: Right L: that we needed to be at and we need to set up and we R: and once we were there we could do all of that but we had to get there L: but we had to get there, and we knew that we didn't wanna get- *laughs* the library would have been very sad if we had, instead of doing the show where the children had expected us to be, we had simply done many small shows on the way there. R: "We got stuck in the lobby, sorry" L: Yeah R: Is a real problem for clowns. L: Is not a thing we wanted to have happen. So we did that, we- we you know, fell into line and we- we focused our way through to where we needed to set up and we had some, it's called 'pipe and drape' R: It's a curtain L: Which is a curtain, it's way to set up R: and a rod. L: curtains and curtain rods. R: It's a free standing curtain and a rod. This is not fancy. L: No. It's actually very standard, and so we R: I mean we stole it from somewhere nice, but it's not fancy. L: And so we had some, some pipe and drape to set up so that we had a backstage and a on-stage R: Which the backstage, what I remember about this is it was very dramatic for the audience, they see a curtain and Ooh theater L: *Affirmative Noise* R: but directly behind that was the rest of a shopping mall. So we- L: Yeah, it was just the rest of the mall. R: So you're back there and people would just see in, and you'd be like "Yeah, we're- we're gonna do a show on the other side of the curtain. L: Yeah, so it was purely for- for the people looking at- at the show space we built, but we did it and it was- it was good and I do remember, one, we had tested a couple of things out but we hadn't actually run the clowns doing the set up because we couldn't right? We couldn't do it in advance R: Well, we could have but we didn't. L: No, we didn't know what- what it was going to be and it would have been very, very strange to have clowns show up at a mall, set up, tear down, and then leave without a show. So- R: That's true L: it also would have gotten in the way of the flow of traffic in the mall, so they didn't let us do that. So we didn't know how long was going to take, so we showed up early to make sure we had plenty of time to set up and clowns are kind of notorious for getting things wrong which admittedly we did, but very carefully. So we ended up getting it set up faster than we expected, we expected there to be more shenanigans and we ended up having some- some time that we had to fill but I- I loved the fact that we did, you and I did a acrobatics track to lift the pipe and drape as high as it needed to go R: Because we didn't bring a ladder L: With the- with the statement "Because we didn't bring a ladder" R: We also didn't bring a ladder. L: No, we didn't bring a ladder R: It's the only L: because we knew we could do this. This is one of the things that we did test in- in advance was that we could do this. So then we did, and that was super fun. R: It's super awkward to stand there with a curtain hanging over your face while someone is standing on your back, putting a curtain up and then when the curtain moves you- you're making eye contact with a person. 'Cause that's what I remember. I remember standing there, you on my neck doing all this stuff and me just looking at an audience and explaining to them very apologetically that we forgot our ladder. L: Yes R: That's all I remember. L: And so then we- we built we- we grabbed the attention of- of the audience, we held it until the show started. Then we did the show R: And they liked it. L: And then after that, we did the same thing in reverse. R: I've- I have said more than once that the best- the best way to do an exit is to, if you nail the entrance, just do that backwards L: *Affirmative Noise* R: You know it worked. Why- why- why mix it up with anything else? L: Yeah, so that was exactly what we did. We tore everything back down and we put it all onto carts and we R: snuck back L: single filed our way out R: It was good- it was a good moment. L: Yeah, it was a real- I really enjoyed that. I would totally do that sort of thing again. R: Oh yeah L: One hundred percent. R: Well and- and in- and in truth we had- we had kind of used that as a test site for that sort of, could we move that way. I prefer to have a backstage for a lot of logistical reasons L: Yes R: Especially now that we're doing a lot more acrobatics. What I remember about that event, because I- I want to put it on the record, I don't like doing shows without backstages because otherwise someone's gonna go "Oh, on your podcast you said you did that" I'm- I'm going to put it down L: Oh no, we don't like- like- *distressed noise* R: What I'm saying is that I- this event happened to be near enough my house I could warm up at my house and very quickly drive over and do the show. L: Yeah, 'cause we need warm up space and warm up time. R: Yeah because otherwise I'm going to get hurt. L: Yeah so R: Yeah L: Yeah so- so, in specific instances, where it makes sense, it was fun, but no, most of the time that doesn't work. R: Well there you go, disclaimer made, no, I don't want to walk through the streets of- with all my stuff. 'Cause someone will ask. L: It's true. All right, well then, the- I will- I will ask you the question. "Have you ever done a show where the clowns built the set in front of the audience and dismantling it at the end of the performance?" Other than the one I just talked about. R: I was about to say, because I've already trenched the- the- the egg museum. It would be great right now if I say "Yeah, the one you did- you talked about" and we just moved on but I've actually got something on it, but not exactly because that I had forgotten the setup and tear down on that one, but I have a great tear down because I believe that the clown comes in with nothing. In any show the clown shows up with nothing and they're going to build something in the room, whether it's an actual stage L: *Affirmative Noise* R: or they're going to unpack their bag or they're going to do it all with imagination, ideally they have nothing. They show up, they make fun with the audience, they make play with the audience and then the leave. Philosophically we do that first part all the time, that's- that's the job because if I was to show up in there is a bunch of props waiting for me? That doesn't really make sense. L: Yeah R: That- that seems like I'm lying to you, I didn't just get here, I didn't just arrive confused, I had a plan and I never like to have a plan because if I do then people expect me to stick to it. See? It's a lot of problems. L: Hmmn, yes. R: Yeah, best stay away from, but I do have a great example of the best tear down L: Okay R: So we did a dinner theater show, this was a really interesting project. It was called Salmagundi and it was- it was done in conjunction with a group that- that catered it and so there was- there was food every month and we did once a month and what happened was, we would do the show, we would take a week off, then we would come back together. We would write an entirely new show. Same team, sometimes a guest performer, but we would write a brand new show. Not reusing material over and over, the goal was to commit to, if we had a core audience, they would- they could come once a month and be a part of something that was constantly vital and by month three, you have run out of ideas. You think you have so many ideas L: *Laughs* R: but when you have to do an entire night of dinner theater, by month three you've run out and all of the ideas we had were gone and we were synergiesed into saying yes. There was this desperation in the- in the team. The creative team would go "Well what-" you know, we would get together be like "Well, we could- what do you think about this theme?" and we'd all go "A theme! Yes!" because once we have that we can write everything and we were so needy for it that very quickly the shows evolved into these really, really tight productions because well, once everything- themes are great because they mean everybody knows what to bring to the table and nothing doesn't fit because, with no hard feelings at that point, you can go "That doesn't really fit the theme" L: The theme yeah R: and even if it's theme "generic" there- there clearly quickly evolves a sort of clear vision of what you're creating if everyone's talking. So that was a lot of the broad- like one of my favorite memories of the shows, we did a Valentine show and I said "Offbeat types of love" I said "You can't just do straight ahead love stories" I said "Any kind of story that was offbeat, some way it had to be a little turned" L: yeah. R: You know. Still family friendly, because it was- it was a family dinner theater, the idea was people brought their kids to this. L: Yes R: So every- every month we had a brand new show and we knew that the last show was coming up and somewhere, not- not like on the usual cycle, I said "Everybody" I guess it was like the tenth or eleventh show, it was pretty late, I said, because we're running like full tilt and while we're doing this, it's worth pointing out, we're doing other events at the same time, for part of that we had a weekly variety show, L: *Affirmative Noise* R: we were still running- and running teaching labs. I was still doing gig performances L: there was another stage show at the same time too. R: we had a narrative theater project in the middle of it. There was so much stuff going- it was really vital time span, the year, L: Yeah R: overlapped this really vital time and in all honesty, it separated a lot of people who were in this because it was fun and a lot of people who were in this because it was their life's passion and not- not saying anything bad about either group but there was- it- there was so much work that if you were not all in, you very quickly stepped back and let the people who were all in do it. L: Yeah R: and that was the team that made it to the finish line and in truth a couple people made it to the finish line and then said "Thank you, I'm- I'm- I'm good" L: Yeah R: "I have had my little- I've had my time and I'm- I'm good" So we had this really, really amazing run but I knew it was coming I said "Hey, everybody, I don't like the idea of this thing just stopping. I know none of us, by this point, want to continue trying to write a completely new show every month. It's- it's not real." L: Yeah R: I said "but I think we can't leave the audience with the idea that we just stopped, because that feels really uncomfortable." and in fact, we had another big show the following weekend and we really wanted to kind of, you know, invite them to it. Not just from a- a publicity standpoint, but from an aesthetic standpoint it just feels nice to know the something continues. L: Yes R: and if you want you can come with us and if you don't, it has been lovely for the time we were together, it was so nice. L: *Affirmative Noise* R: and I said "What if we pack the show up and took it with us?" and we started evolving on this idea and when people arrived at the show there was bubble wrap and cardboard boxes and paper and tape and everywhere, caution tape hanging from a cable on the ceiling, every inch of the place looked like we had stopped packing in the middle to throw a show L: Yes R: and in the pre-show we did things like wrap cling wrap around the empty aisles of seats, around the edge aisles of seats, so people were packed up to be shipped out with us and then we tore it away at the and, and you know we we did things like, every act had to- the idea was, every act had to remove something from the stage, and the one I remember I did was I got- I gave someone bubble wrap, and we had a bubble wrap fight and it escalates and they're winning 'cause I give them the bigger bubble wrap and I really want them to win but I also this great silly idea and so we're going back and forth and back and forth, it's clear they've won, and I would go and I was like "wait here" and I run off stage and the stage is empty for about oh, like five seconds, I mean, it's- it's big enough you felt it. L: yeah R: The wings in that theater were exactly two butts wide. L: yeah R: and we had managed, in that time, to put performers on pulleys and stilts and all sorts of things but we- I wanted to put a unicycle in there and I rode from the wings so you couldn't see it, so it seemed like I came- I ran a long way L: *Affirmative Noise* R: and then I rode in on a unicycle and rode across the center stage and ran over the piece of bubble wrap I had been playing with on the edge, I ran down the center of it and it went off like a machine gun. And it was just like- everybody was just clapping and than I jumped off, I wrapped the seat with the bubble wrap, fulfilling- fulfilling the requirement, flipped it over my shoulder, thanked everybody, and walked off and so it continued that idea, and it was- this person in the in the audience had gotten their win, and their bubble wrap noises, and I got mine and you know, I had to like do something insane in order to even get near them. L: Yeah R: and so it was a lovely- it was a lovely little act within the show and them by the end of it we were putting acrobats into boxes and picking the boxes up and carrying them off. We were packing things down, you put us- you put the "When I'm gone" song L: Yeah, I put "When I'm gone" in there and then packed up my diabolo. R: And so, and packed up your diabolo at the end and walked it off stage, and every act did this and by the time was done most of the theater- of the stuff that was hanging around was clear, and we ended with a, you know, "We'll see you down the road". L: Yes R: Which is a very, a classic circus "We'll see you down the road" and that's the one I always remember for the packing away a thing. I've done many things where I put props all over the stage and I love it when you put props all over the stage and part of either the next act or the rest of the show involves getting rid of it, because I don't like the idea of bombing a stage and walking- you know, with- with props and then walking off then having to come back after everybody leaves and clean up, because that doesn't feel like how we do. If we've walked into theater and kind of gotten away with being there, and we unpack and we do a thing L: Then you have to pack back up before you go home R: You gotta- you gotta get it outta there. Both: Yeah R: So that was- that was why I thought- was- I was really drawn to this. It's such a good question, 'cause this- this was such a good visual and I think what I liked about it so much was it was something everyone intrinsically understood. Everyone at some point in their life has moved, or moved stuff L: Or- or R: Packed up an object L: Packed up an object, or helped somebody else move if they absolutely haven't moved themselves R: and- and yeah, L: Pretty much everyone's done that R: everyone's had some experience with, you know, shipping things L: yeah R: You know, obviously and so it immediately- I didn't expect it to hit resonance like it did, but it really did, and when we have left the stage there was a clear feeling that we weren't coming back. L: Yeah R: Which we weren't, cause that show was over. We- we- we tore down that night and that was the end of a year of- of- of shows, but that last night everybody loved it because we created this really lovely illusion that we had carefully sort of packed it up and taken it with us L: yeah R: I'm so glad somebody asked that question, I'm- really that's just such, L: It was a good one. R: It's a L: It really good one R: It's a good question and a good feeling L: yeah R: thank you, thank you for that dear reader. Listener? Reader? L: Listener R: I was going to say L: I mean unless you're reading the transcript, in which case you're a reader. R: We get it both ways. L: We get both of 'em R: That's true we always win, unless we're losing, and then we win twice. *pause* R: It's zen. It's very zen. L: Okay R: Sure L: I have one more question R: You have another question? L: There is one more question. R: Oh, there's one more question yeah oh? L: This is our last question of the episode. R: This one- this one flew by. R: It really did. It- it- it- it just zoomed. R: It zoomed. I hope- I hope we've said enough. I can make some more stuff up L: Well, we do have one more question. R: That's true. Hang on, I just want a moment together. We're all together right now. L: Okay. R: You're here, L: Yes. R: I'm hear, you're here listening. I just, I want that moment. Okay it's good. I'm ready. Okay, I think we're all- Are you ready? Yeah, I think we're all ready. L: Okay R: What's the question? L: The question is "What are bees?" R: Excuse me? L: "What are bees?" R: Second letter of the alphabet L: No, but "What are bees?" R: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm- Oh, B's. It's- okay, so in- in the American school system, if you do really well you get an A, if you do kinda "eh" you get a C Anything below that pretty quickly becomes an F, which means you failed. The one that's better but not great? That's a B. L: No, but "What are bees?" (over enunciating the 'z' sound in 'bees') R: B's? Oh, like vitamin B-twelve B-seven? They're an essential nutrient. You should take your vitamins. Get some sunlight while you're at it. It's good for you. L: No- Read it. R: Okay I'll read it to you. "What are bees?" L: They're small, little- little creatures that- that buzz R: Now wait a minute L: and collect honey. R: Is that why they- they call them bees- they call them bees because they buzz? L: I don't know if it's because they buzz but they are called bees E: Well now wait a minute. That doesn't make any sense at all, because if you do that then you have like- wasps, they buzz. L: but they're different than bees. R: flies, yeah but they don't call them 'bwasps' L: Well, I said that I don't know that bees are called bees 'cause they buzz but they are called bees. B E E R: Oh, you mean the fuzzy butted L: Yeah R: Sweater wearin' L: Honey maker R: Why didn't you say so in the first place? L: I did! R: No, you didn't. L: Yeah, I said "What are bees?" R: And I told you. Like three or four different answers, and then you finally mentioned which one you wanted. Why didn't you ask in the first place? You're just being silly L: Bees are important to our environment. That's what they are and is important that we keep them safe and help them grow R: I agree. The little fuzzy butted ones. I'm not so concerned about the other ones. L: Yeah, the fuzzy butted ones. R: The other stuff's important too but L: That make the honey R: Yeah, honey is delicious. L: Yeah, and pollinate plants. That- that's important part. Is they pollinate plants. And help keep- R: You seem know a lot about this L: keep the world running R: You know, you're a smart kid. You know that? L: Well, I have an aunt who's a beekeeper. R: Do you do have an uncle that keeps birds? L: No R: So you only know about the bees then? L: Yeah R: Probably for the best, now that I think about it. Well everybody, that's our questions for this time, if you would like us to answer more these hard hitting, intelligent questions, sit and think about that life choice and then send them to us and we'll write them down on little index cards and we'll sit in this little room and we'll answer every little one of you, right here, on L: "Two Clowns in a Closet" R: Yeah, Oooh, I do have one more thing L: Oh are we doing the thing? R: I was thinking we might to the thing. L: We're going to do the thing this episode? R: A reward for our loyal listeners. L: So we are changing it up R: Oh, I guess we are. This is- Well, it is and it isn't L: Okay R: Okay so, behind the door behind me- behind you there's a wall L: Yes behind me there's a wall R: and I feel like we're starting to- L: And some shoes R: I told you we're let- and some shoes, yeah, we're letting people into our world. There's a there's a pillow underneath me but behind me there is the very door I walk through to be here with both of you today. L: Yes R: And behind this door I usually keep the theme song L: Oh yeah, because the- the door opens and theme song plays. R: That's how we do. That's where I keep the themes song. What- It's obvious that's where I keep the theme L: Well, yeah R: You're usually still sitting in here cleaning up, so you don't L: So I don't notice it as much but yes. R: Right, but up- but the theme song, out there it's thunderously loud, in here it's really nice L: *Affirmative Noise* R: Right, so, we have the theme song, and you know this very episode started with it, it's a lovely song. We were given, as a gift, the sheet music to the theme song and we posted it and we asked some of her musician friends and they have provided us with a handful of their own renditions and their own remixes L: Of the theme song? R: Of our theme song. Our theme song is hitting the charts so hard that people are covering it. L: Wow R: And because it's under the creative commons, We're encouraging it, we're for it and were rewarding people by in the show notes, the theme song on the other side of this door? The- the artist and the link to their site will be there, so you can go them up and see what they do when they're not doing covers of our incredibly popular theme song. L: Awesome R: So, I figure we'll put a few of these in. If we get a few more maybe we'll work those in too but I got a handful, so I figure we'll do the first one tonight when I hit the knob, the theme song knob. L: That's exciting R: Are you- are you listening? L: I am listening. I am prepared. I am R: You're ready L: I'm ready for this R: and I hope you're ready too because here goes our first guest star theme song, for our podcast L: "Two Clowns in a Closet" R: We'll see ya next time *door opens* *podcast theme remix plays*